On Monday, the Seattle City Council voted to allow more parking-free development in the city. Council members characterized the changes as small steps in the city’s quest to make housing more affordable and to shift people away from their cars. Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkin said she would sign the legislation into law.

In the wake of this news, Sightline Executive Director Alan Durning appeared on Tuesday’s episode of KUOW’s The Record to discuss living car-free in Seattle. It’s something he first attempted as a one-year experiment in 2006, and it has stuck 12 years later.

Listen to the entire episode here. The segment encompasses the first 23 minutes, with council member Rob Johnson joining the program for the first 10 minutes to talk about the vote, followed by Alan coming on at about the 10:30 mark.